more Q&As

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Merketh, Jun 20, 2011.

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    Saul Community Member

    Were talking about a PvP Server here Furie, no point in being on one if you dont like PvP, what you are confusing with fact is based on Aion, WAR, which were themeparked MMO's where only small areas of the game world were open to PvP, so plenty of people could avoid those areas and not PvP. In SWTOR you will have no choice but to go to these places on a PvP Server, on a PvE server they will follow the WAR method of allowing PvP lakes in areas on these planets that people will avoid.

    Also when you have objectives, the most stacked side win and kill PvP for those not in big Organised Guilds, this wont happen in SWTOR because there wont be any single I Win Fortress like in Aion, that deflates the opposition, because they dont have the same commitment to large scale pvp as the other faction, so they avoid it.
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    F U R I E Veteran BOON

    On Rift we rolled on a PvP server, and every area besides the 2 starting areas were open to both factions to pvp.
    You cannot believe the amount of carebearness you could find around, people doing quests 5 meters away from the other faction members, sometimes even sharing the mobs.
    When most of us reached the endgame we started raiding some enemy quest hubs and elite public quest areas, we were lucky if we could find an another faction raid (pve raid of course, there was no reason for them to make a pvp raid with no world pvp objectives) in the whole evening.
    Pretty much the reason why BOON didnt survive the first 2 months of the game.
    The only thing that could make it different for SWTOR is the players attachment to the side they chose, and be RPer enough to reject the thought of coexisting with the other side. Still, im pretty sure the players that were playing RIFT back then will be playing SWTOR, so not much hope on that.

    EDIT: The problem i have with this game (and with RIFT) is that the whole PvP part seems to be thrown into the game just for the sake of it so the devs could say "yes we have pvp". Its obvious that this game is pve and rp centered, if they would have just sticked to those parts without adding any half-assed pvp "system" then i would actually respect them much more.
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    Alaisy Veteran BOON

    If you go into SW:TOR with the same mindset as we had with RIFT you'll end up with the same disappointment I reckon. This game has a much higher PvE focus than PvP, just don't expect otherwise.

    There's no point going in the game and try to ''rape the server''. The only game on the radar that suggests something similar to that is Arch Age, and even that has yet to prove it.
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    Saul Community Member

    I totally disagree Furie, the Guys from Mythic were brought in from day 1 of game development, they have gone out of their way to avoid what you say about PvP being thrown on, by recruiting people who via DAoC and WAR have experience better than theirs on how to do PvP in an MMO, love or hate them they have way more experience at doing it than most.

    People make a lot of assumptions based on not a lot. There are loads of posts and reviews of Combat and PvP that is nothing but positive, yet people still think that Bioware have bolted on PvP. There are loads of leaks, etc that state that the PvE is both challanging and fun, yet still loads of people just hate about it being like WoW, or some other Cookie Cutter MMO.

    I just don't get it tbh, has Bioware slept with your sisters or something?? Anything that gets a lot of attention, just has to be dissed, because too many people are raving about it.

    It's not WoW, It's not SWG, It's not Aion, It's not anything we have played before, it may borrow certain mechanics that work, form those games, basic UI and control mechanism that are too familiar to remove without pissing people off. but this is a different game.

    And as for the PvP faction thing, think about it for a second.. The whole thing about story is it sucks you into your character and the World, so in short, "Ohh, Yeahh Baby is their going to be Faction pride and hatred, hell Sith Warriors already want to kill their companion Vette, because she is too fucking light Side, whats that tell you??

    As Ive said before this game wont appeal to everyone, but what a lot of you may have not experianced before, is the immersion they are creating and how that immersion drags you back time and time again and how it creates a huge sense of pride and loyalty to your faction, enough to make carebears try and kick your ass on a daily basis.
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    Alaisy Veteran BOON

    It still doesn't say anywhere, no matter how positive people are what goal world PvP has. In DAoC you had multiple factions and sieging, WAR also had sieging but was a miserable case of imbalance and a terrible engine. In SWTOR there are battlegrounds, as long as they are there people will go for easy reward and leave world PvP for ganking or RP'ers.
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    F U R I E Veteran BOON

    So why no info on PvP (besides the sporadic leaks from testers) when the release is relatively close?
    Even GW2 has more infos about their pvp even though its coming out 6 months later. Either crappy PR department or its just that they dont have anything to say/its not their focus. If they were proud of what they created with Mythic as you seem to hint, they would talk about its features anytime they can.
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    Alaisy Veteran BOON

    Well GW2 is just as vague tbh, yes some systems scattered around and plans they have but nothing you can see yet. I doubt you'll see much of either until NDA's are lifted completely. I'm not convinced PvP is the center of either of the games, they'll have to show it and prove it.
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    F U R I E Veteran BOON

    In Open World PvP GW2 has 3 servers fighting each other from a pool of 9-12 servers, they change combinations each week. The map is divided into 4 areas, the central one with the majority of keeps/castles and objectives like mines/farms/bridges that you can destroy and fix with dynamic events, giving the home-playing server buffs/debuffs. You can lvl from 1 to 80 just roaming in these areas and pvping/doing dynamic events. With the sidekick system lower lvl players fighting higher lvl ones will be sidekicked and considered by the system as 5-10 lvls below the higher one. PvP only toons are not allowed in this mode.

    In competitive and structured PvP the format is a 5v5, which is branched in 2 types: the typical high level competitive with ELO, or similar system, ladder aimed for tournaments use (would probably follow the automatic daily tournament system they introduced later in GW1 with monthly finals between the top 64+ scoring teams in the dailies of the said month); and the Free For All type of 5v5 which will be more like, quoting what they say, "You can imagine a FPS where you just jump into a map and pick it up and play." Going to be something between Hall of Heroes, Random Arena and Alliance Battles of GW1, with capturable points and stuff.

    The difference between the PvP infos coming out from GW2 and SWTOR is that ANet keeps talking about PvP in every interview giving something new, even if its a small detail, and you can feel the entusiasm every time as they talk about some situation they met during playtesting in PvP.
    I honestly have no idea about the PvP of SWTOR will be like as i cant find any infos, all i know is that it will have some kind of open world pvp on all planets with no objectives, no arenas but they have warfronts. These infos coming out from NDA breakers, no official word on it 2-3 months away from release.
    Im trying to follow SWTOR as well but besides the testers leaking out infos and some sporadic trailers about some awesome PvE adventure, i dont see much else.
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    Tvar Classic Officer

    The most fun I had in Rift was early max level and struggling to beat all the 5man expert dungeons. That was fun, regardless. I like that fact that SWTOR has even smaller groups, with 4man groups. Makes it easier to form (good) groups of consistent people. As far as "raping the server" (lol what an expression) maybe not as far as PvP goes, but the PvE content and raiding perhaps. I kinda miss raiding with an organized guild, WoW-clone style, even if its with lightsabers, and this game could be a refreshing new start. Biggest reason Rift failed for me was the awful gfx, class mechanics, etc.

    PvP...as long as you can actually join battlegrounds with full premade groups (another big Rift fail), and there are occasional World PvP skirmishes (ganking like a boss, amirite Doodle?) like WoW vanilla (tarren mill, blackrock mountain), I'm happy, cos I'm not expecting much more. Take the game for what it is (and not what Saul is trying to make it out to be), no big revolutionary thing in the MMO game market - and you probably won't be dissappointed.
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    Saul Community Member

    @Furie what your talking about is E-Sports, GW2 from what you told me turns me cold like WoW Ranked BG's and Arenas. Way to go to get rivalries, and pride going, when you, your guild and it's achievements disappear in an ever revolving system of linked server groups. Imo mate, the worst form of PvP, you want to E-Sports, then we should be an FPS Clan. E-Sports in an MMO is is just a big fucking lawl imo.

    @Tvar I don't think SWTOR will be revolutionary, I think it's looking back to the past and bringing immersion and self pride back into MMO's. In the old days player content was the easy way to do this, nothing breeds guild and faction pride like player content, forts, castles, bases, etc. Some fucker knocks over your shit, that you and your bro's spent hours sorting out, you sure as hell want to pay him and his buddies a visit, (Hopefully Archeage will deliver this). In SWTOR they suck you into the story, and it is addictive, and it pulls you into the world and makes you give a shit, and replaces the reliance on achievement based PvP, Capture, etc. I have no doubts that SWTOR will also have achievement based Open World PvP as well, I believe there are 2 such objectives on Hoth and Belsavis, not confirmed yet though. However I believe that having 11 Planets open to open World Faction PvP will draw more people into the fight in small medium and large scale battles, than any ranked or league system, or static faction objectives.
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    F U R I E Veteran BOON

    League of Legends, Counter Strike and Starcraft 2 are safely three of the most played and respected multiplayer games out there, with a huge fanbase and an evergrowing community that supports them. What do they have in common? They have a competitive scene.
    The last weekend up to 1 million players followed the League of Legends tournament which took place in Dreamhack, similar numbers followed the Starcraft 2 one. Every day, if you add up all the viewers of the several streams, up to 20-30 thousands gamers watch professional League of Legends players streaming and play, same goes for Starcraft 2 with probably even bigger numbers.
    You might think that all these people are crazy; why would they prefer watching someone else play and waste their precious free time when they could get into the game and play by themselves?

    It's the same reason why people like to watch traditional sports on traditional media, of course you could pick a ball and play by yourself, but watching someone else clearly better than you is much more appealing.
    And yes i agree that traditional MMOs dont fit in an esport scene; they usually reward you for the amount of effort and time you put into the game, let it be xp/levels or items/gear, and not for being literally more skilled than other players.
    The games i mentioned earlier have one thing in common: they all give the players the same possibilities at the start of the match, noone is ahead of others for past experiences or efforts, it doesnt matter if you played 10 days or 10 months. They need to build their own advantage in that very same match, using their game knowledge, mechanics and team coordination. That's why i refuse to consider WoW arenas part of a competitive scene.

    Guild Wars 1 tried it back in the days with a discrete success, its pvp system had all the ingredients for a successful competitive scene.
    In fact GW was labelled as CORPG (Competitive Online RPG) instead of MMO, which was also the reason why many people didnt like it as they expected a classic PvE MMO.

    And the game succeeded, several multigaming clans mostly known for their FPS/RTS teams started recruiting in the game (for example my guild had to change name to represent the clan we got into) and tournaments by ESL, NCSoft itself or other sites kept coming to support the scene.
    Then the economic crysis struck in, several esports organizations started to file bankrupcy or being sold, companies stopped sponsoring progaming teams.
    People said esports was dead.
    That plus the fact that, like most of the great ideas, Guild Wars was too ahead of its time to be accepted by the skeptics (streaming sites were rare and shitty quality, streaming a tournament was unthinkable, let it be streaming by your own) made the scene slowly fade. Still today, 6 years after its release, the GvG scene of GW1 is more than alive and kicking. Just press B (observer mode) when you log into the game and see the amount of top gvg matches that are played.
    With GW2 i feel like the times are ready, people started to accept and understand e-sports, and even a casual player can enjoy a high level game and have fun with it.

    A healthy competitive scene brings a healthy community, a healthy community brings a healthy game. Even if being competitive is not your aim, you should welcome with open arms any attempt of supporting a competitive scene by your favourite game. It can only bring benefits to it.
  12. Offline

    Maskerad Veteran BOON

    Actually, you need to be max level to be able to compete in LoL. Just saiyan'.

    Also, don't forget all the console esports.
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    Aspira Admin Officer

    AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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    Acina Admin Officer

    reported for spam!!!1
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    Alaisy Veteran BOON

    Well what I like about GW1 and hopefully the same will be with GW2 is that you can jump into the game whenever you want, do some random stuff. Just like an FPS you said, jump in the battle and get out. No subscription, so I may end up playing both SW:TOR and GW2 at the same time.
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    Doodle Bush Whacker!

    its just like zones in wow ofc the playerbase is spread depending on lvl

    my favorite
    Q. Is it possible to toggle auto-facing on/off in PvE? There is still no auto-facing in PvP, right?

    A. No auto-facing in PvP. Auto-facing cannot be toggled off for PvE.
  17. Offline

    Doodle Bush Whacker!

    Im going in to this game for the (hopefully) amazing pve and the occasional ganking the shit out of the random nub. I dont expect much in the ways of pvp during its first year tbh.

    give beta invite
  18. Offline

    Tvar Classic Officer

    Furie is drifting off topic imo. Oh the horror. Stop comparing Apples and Pears.

    I hear what you're saying Saul, even hope you're right. I remember back in the early days, where you did not accept grinding next to another of the other faction, there just had to be world pvp, which erupted into gankfests and later on "Tarren Mill scenarios". I am however, not sure that the immersion part alone will make this happen, but it can help I guess. What you need to bring some unprovoked world pvp going is a small area of interest for everyone, like Isle of ol' Quel Danas, where everyday murder and pvp that often escalated to outright war, was as frequent as the daily quests.


    QFT, just have fun with it. Hopefully not every BOON will fuck off, or we'll have to roll jedi scum and join Sauls happy-fun-crew :(
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    Alaisy Veteran BOON

    NO THANK YOU, no Isle of Quel Danas please. That would mean doing a gazillion daily quests, worst thing WoW ever added to their game. Great way to make a game feel like a job.

    The Pvp there however was pretty cool, so adding something of interest in a populated zone with both factions and no restrictions would be cool. A zone like Stranglethorn Vale would be more fun, added with an arena that spawns a chest of loot in the middle which you have to fight for.
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    Tvar Classic Officer

    I was refering to an area of interest yeah, not really the dailys. I abhore those kind of quests.. (but hey, a grinder's gotta do what a grinder's gotta do, to stay ahead, it's just means to an end ;) )

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