Have MMOs became too easy? /discuss

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Katiechops, Jul 4, 2013.

  • by Katiechops, Jul 4, 2013 at 9:29 PM
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    Katiechops Guild Master

    [IMG]

    Saw this on the GW2 forums and had a read and does make you think

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/7540/Mark-Kern-Have-MMOs-Become-Too-Easy.html

    A lot of what he says is so true, my first mmo was Lineage 2, there was barely 40 quests and after 2 years I was lvl 62 of 75, you could spend months in one area and the only instance on the map was a 100+ man raid boss's cave. The crafting, you had to gather all the mats, like 1000s for one weapon, one race and class had gather skills, and only one race and class could craft! no one else, you had to work together, there were basically no drops make it of buy shit gear from NPC's and best of all no Action House, players set up shop or you traded in chat.... sounds shit? Played it for 2 years and loved it, still my fondest mmo.

    After that was WoW, vanilla, while every mmoer worth their salt will claimed to have farmed 40 man Naxx I think they claimed as little as 10% of wow players actually even raided in the place let alone cleared it. TBC, took us something like 270 raids and 12 months to farm Black Temple and it was epic.

    [IMG]

    Since that point not a single MMO including WoWs expansions has came close to holding my attention or giving me enough content or challenge to let me play it for 12 months, infact Aion is the only one that really lasted much more than 6 months.

    So maybe this dude is right and hitting it right on the head maybe the old mmo genre that we knew and loved is gone and no one can really blame the companies either these games cost vast amounts of money and take years to make they are here to make money.

    Which game to design? A game that keeps the hardcore happy for a year and puts off a couple of million players who can't keep up or a game that attracts a few million players but loses a few hundred thousand "hardcore" players?

    If I was investing I'd pick the second and lawl at the forum whining from my yacht, another Martini anyone?
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Comments

Discussion in 'Game Discussion' started by Katiechops, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Law
    Well don't take this the wrong way but around L2 timeline you were alot younger. Gaming for me every year gets worse and worse cause I don't have the time or focus to spend hours and hours and when I do the games don't feel like they used to. Everything has to change and the bad thing is in our eyes they get worse.

    I take my sons reaction to gaming as my example he looks at videos of new games and goes "WOW", "IWANTZ" and I laugh cause it looks shit. So companies have to market for that kind of player and not us anymore haha.

    If you play any online game and it lasts 6months then I think its a winner.

    As much as I hope I am wrong I don't even see Wildstar lasting more than 2-3months for me.

    BUT.......

    It is also who you play games with that keeps you playing longer. Break in the chain and the whole thing falls.

    Have noticed in alot of forums that as soon as say for e.g. the main crew of the guild or team get burned out and leave the rest follow suit, even without finishing the game.

    You guys say Hulsfed or whatever, it just shows that before you even set down to playing it, you all think it wont last :D

    In the end we can't win. Age will do us all over and gaming companies will just keep making shit games to pay the billz!
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  2. Drexciyian
    I played EvE on and off for 7/8 years which is by far the hardest most rewarding mmo i've played but like law said as you get older you have less time to put into it, same goes for quakeworld/quake 3 which is by far the highest skill cap of any FPS but starting from CS up till now with COD fps just got easier and easier for casuals and now thats all gaming companies make which imo what happened to mmo's
  3. Xom
    I tried my old MUD the other day out of boredom. The very same game, some of the very same players. It lost my attention in about an hour.

    I don't think it's mostly the games themselves that have changed. It is us that have changed. We are all in very different phases of our lives, and hardened (spoiled) by hundreds of games we played also.

    In fact, I do agree the games changed in a way to suit the grown-up us by allowing ways to spend less time and still get an enjoyable experience. Maybe a less challenging experience, but at the least a experience.

    While hardcore 40-man raiding might give that great nostalgia feel, I am no longer that 20-odd year old that had/made time for hours of raiding and preparation each day. Now the question is, how do the 20-odd/18 yo people nowadays experience mmorpgs?
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  4. Law
    Before Stacking Years: 0.2Au/s Scorpion MWding lol
    Pre-Nano Nerf Years: VagaBonds and Zealot roaming gangs with Sleip
    Nano-Nerf Years: Tengu 100mn AB with Loki bonus's my most enjoyable solo gank roamer :D 300+kills no loss, 6.7b worth of Tengu and Clone :D
    Good times good times.

    Infact the best gaming time I have had so far. If Eve was not a real life job in a video game id still play it.

    I am looking forward to attempting 40-man raids again, will be a nice change but I am not looking forward to the time you have to spend each night lol.

    [IMG]
    • Funny Funny x 1
  5. Merketh
  6. Kharjas
    I also spent years in L2, but I dont see myself farming again too hardcore for me atm, but I would like to see L2 pvp implemented in more games, castle sieges or boss farming pvp was amazing.

    Eventhough that it will be people moaning all the time, a game has to have something difficult to achieve in terms of gear. L2 jewelry boss drop made the people to have epic battles around the respawn time.
  7. Jinx
    The key word is "first". You've found a game with vast amount of obstacles to beat and achievements to reach,something to make you play for months/years and occopy your time... everything else you've played afterwards is just very similar to L2 and you were burning out fast. Obviously WoW raiding offered you different experience and hyped you to play even more. L2 was my very first MMO too... and I loved it. But I love more GW2 because it nullifies the problems L2 had and offers more of the variaty I seek. Yet,I miss those hours to spent solo grinding, 2-3 shotting mobs or big guild experience.

    ^ my thoughts exactly.

    This is due to the similar gameplay every MMO offers. You buy the game,you cover the content,you play one more week and you quit. Every MMO is the same,same gameplay covered in different envirement with small tweaks of its own.

    Why there was so much fuss about GW2?... It was offering sth new and refreshing. PvP experience to be developed with the time into E-Sport. No PvE and PvP combined to create an even envirement for the different focused players... etc etc etc...

    Imo, "hardcore" players give up on the new MMOs very fast because they put too low goals to themselves due to the old,a lot of time consuming MMOs where such goals were enough to make them play for months/years. To back up my words with GW2 - How many of the Boons obtained Legendary weapons withing the first 2 months?... How many of these very same guys kept playing in 2013?... How many reached 100k WvW kills and kept playing?... This for me is the reason to not be in any kinda of pvp comunity, very much like this one... people either play one game for month or two or dont play anything. And imo,thats because they do the same rotation in every game/MMO.... and its all about their prejudice - they know they gonna do this in the game they've just bought: Gonna level one character to max lvl, gonna equip it with gear, gonna use some remodelling to make it fancy looking,gonna going trough the map,do all the dungeons at least once....And when all this has been done,players just quit.Games like L2 and Aion kept going for many players because they were having hard time (or spending lots of time) on gearing chars or seeking the "eternal" loot in a dungeon....

    To conclude my personal observation on MMOs "failure to keep players for longer than 6 months" :D I want to say two things:
    - Its all about your experience in the MMO scene,how old you are and what time you can spend on such type of gaming.... and imo,what goals you put to yourself to achieve in this game...
    - I personally stopped gaming long ago... when I started playing L2 in 2007. I dont play any other kinda of games (with VERY minor exceptions ;p) but MMOs and I dont play many MMOs I play MMOs worth seeing and worth staying (to mention here I knew MMOs like Terra or Rift will be total shit, and Im telling you right now that MMOs like Archage and Wildstar will be the same.). What I seek is PvP experience with very dedicated community and developers striving for the best. I also do PvE whenever I dont feel like PvPing or ... Im very bored... or when I want to achieve some goal in there.... It took me nearly 2 months to lvl my first char in gw2,by the time I had done this almost everyone I started the game with had quit coz they were at 80 for nearly 2 months... by the time I hit 10k WvW kills players alrdy had x2,3 times more and tons of legendary weapons were lurking around....
    By the time everyone,including you guys,had quit Im still here and enjoy the game because I put to myself small goals to achieve every day and not play more than the point where I get furstrated.... do a dayly,kill few,grind few dungeons... take a break... As soon as you dont overplay it,any game is the perfect spot for you.

    Having this in mind, the so called "hardcore" players wont be satisfied any soon. Its 2013 and everyone who has played MMOs for more than 5 years dont want to spend his entire life on grinding for boots,shoulders,helmets,coats,leggins or bloody jewels! No one wants broken PvP mechanic or to experience just the next boss fight and feel the excitement in the incoming loot... lawl :D

    The guys from Extra Credits talk quite often about MMOs and their problems. And definitely worths watching their vids about this matter.
    One of the points why MMOs fail is because they dont have progression?... To check this out with GW2,progression is right there... money,skins,achievements points,kills,rank points,tournaments!... yet,none of these will draw you back if you havent played the game for months in row. This I find bloody brilliant about Anet - Give everyone equal start and equal base,whoever wants more can do it whnever he wants w/o being forced to do so.


  8. Katiechops
    Not really I was 35 then and had played computer games for 28 years by then so well past the games were more fun and fressh stage when moving off my specturm 48k, which were the bets games ever \o/ btw!

    I have even more time than I did with I was playing L2 and WoW now thanks to "life begining at 40" but the games just don't have the time sinks/ challanges or massively long term goals, look at GW2 the "legendary weapons" BOONs had them in little more than 1 month, some had 4 within 4 months,, these items should have taken a year, they are legendary, now they are almost standard issue.

    As Xom says we can move on in our lives, and now just can't do what we used to have to do in the past games, but what do the players who used to do that do now? because in many ways its simply not catered for anymore.

    And does that matter? lets face it its not really the most healthiest lifestyle, I wouldn't want my son to do it, I'd be gtfo that PC, study more, got out and socialise more, chase girls IRL! more, do more sports etc etc.

    Atm if does feel like BOON comunity has settled into a lets try the new games, we only expect 2-6 months out of a mmo now as we will do it all and get all the experiance in 500 hours gameplay as opposed to 2000. And maybe thats just not a bad thing.
  9. Law
    Wow I had you pegged much younger >< its the voice, through's you off :D

    Also putting them on the AH so people with retarded RL money could buy them was a huge mistake.

    Its all about the game tbh. I know Dota2 isnt on the same scale as a MMO but it is done so well that even with a bizzy day I'm still up to 600+ hours so far.
    If the MMO is fun, so so content, fun quests, good team stuff and has that "I want to login" factor il play it for years even if something new comes along.
    I'm sick of searching for that next buzz and never finding it. Once I do I wont quit because of what I have seen with the gaming market.

    If Wildstar can get me to say "Fuck yea login in time" after 6months I will be very very impressed.
  10. Gurtholfin
    Younger people have far lower attention spans than older people - there are many studies indicating this rapid change in a very short period. This is a product of our environment, both physical and social, as well as the emergence of faster information and the internet. Today, people expect immediate entertainment (not after waiting 45 minutes for your tapedeck to load 'Revenge of the Mutant Camels' on C64) in short bursts. We see it in education all of the time.

    So the average player in gaming age (although this age is rising) now expect quicker gains or they'll go elsewhere. And this is the dilemma companies face.

    At the same time, you have older gamers who suffer from "Been there before" syndrome. I was once a top-end raider in an MMO.... do I really want to invest the same amounts of time to achieve something I've done before? Given I'm older and have less time, would I ever achieve the same thing again. After you run a marathon it's less exciting thinking of training for a 10k run.

    I think that this last point explains the rise of the MOBA genre. Both sets mentioned above are catered for by them:

    1) The younger gamer with shorter attention span, who can play a fairly fast paced, yet skilled game in 60 mins or less
    2) The older gamer with less time, looking for some challenging and competitive PvP, who can stay competitive as they aren't playing against younger "farmers" with better gear

    Gurth
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  11. Paran
    Its true that MMOs became too easy. But at first tihnk why?

    1. The developer try to create a game which every one could play it, how matter how much time he can play/day.
    2. If a dungeon or something else its too hard for a casual gamer they start cryind and says something like: "Shit game." "50 € for that bullshit. Got always killed because not enough heal, no tank and the NPCs deal too much dmg. i got no skill."
    3. We are obsessively about a new game and play it 10 hours per day. So we get bored fast and drop the game after a few months again.

    The new MMOs are not createt for people like us. The most ppl want changes and the developer give them the changes to keep the ppl in game. Well the most ppl.

    I rember the days: WoW - 40ppl in MC. After hours of farming ingredients, 3 wipes at the boss and finally we killed him.
    Well i dont miss this times. I dont wanna spend hours to farm ingredients to get MAYBE a better gear or to say: I killed him!

    Would write more but dont have so much time.
  12. Maskerad
  13. Aspira
  14. Erastmus
    I wouldn't say that they are too easy.. What they do is becoming more mainstream and accessible to everyone. As I've mentioned in several posts, my MMORPG history starts with Everquest, which at start and a good while into the years, was a hardcore, unforgiving playstyle. You had to have a guild raiding group if you wanted to achieve something; exp was lost when you died, there was no automatic corpse recovery often meaning you had to several zones to reclaim your body and the platinum and the items on it... You could wait literally for weeks for that special rare mob to spawn that had a 10% drop rate for one of the numerous pieces needed for your epic weapon. Competiton was cut-throat and the grinding extreme. What also happened is that you learned how to team play, you learned your role, and you learned it well. I could go on and on.

    Enter WoW (Star Wars galaxies the pervious major MMORPG but had a lot of Eqs traits) who opened up gameplay for the "general audience". Want to raid Ina smaller group than a 40-60 man raid? There's an optino for you. Want to feel like you can achieve something by yourself? There's an option for you.

    Would it work to develop an MMORPG like Verants Everquest today. Yes, for a very hardcore and niche market. Would it make money? No. Today for example, Everquest changed from a guild oriented game to become much, much more solo and casual friendly. Corpses doesn't disappear, you can hire mercenaries if you don't have a group etc. Generally, people doesn't want time sinks. They want a game that they can get into fast, achieve as much as possible and still get rewarded for it, then hit the disconnect button. It need to be accessible.

    Naturally there is and has been many more mmorpgs then the ones i compared. In my opinion though Everquest and World of Warcraft are excellent comparisons because they are each others counterparts and they have been out on the market for a number of years.
  15. Aspira
    That is fancy speak for "casual as fuck".
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Erastmus
    Yes, one could phrase it like that too.. Is it a good thing that the developers tend to lean towards the mainstream playstyle? That is up to each and own methinks but personally, no. Bring back certain parts of old Everquest and breathe some sort of new air into it for a future mmorpg. Integrate instead of separate... Or at least let us make a choice.
  17. Fizzee
    The problem isn't the games but the "hardcore" gamers. Gamers, especially MMO hardcore gamers need constant progression to be satisfied with the game, which has always been in the form of levels and gear which both amount to power. Once that stops the gamer looses interest.

    Look at GW2. The game is solid and if the guild was still there, no doubt I would be... But because progression is fast and short, hardcore people loose interest. For many, goals like legendary and achievements were not enough as it didn't amount to "power"

    I think this is why MOBAs are so popular amongst old MMO players, as every game you progress in power and never max out.

    Its a shame we can't enjoy games for the gameplay like casual players do, never concerned about being #1, but we can't, we have a "games are competitive and I'll be the best" attitude.

    So yeah, most games now cater to the masses (as they should to be profitable) but I don't care, I'll just play numerous games, experience new worlds and new and re-imagined mechanics, then once the progression runs out, settle down with some single player and indie titles until the next guild game rolls along to own shit up again.

    I mean think about it. If GW2 was still going strong, every night we were owning peoples faces... Would I have had time to play BioShock infinite or metro last light, far cry 3 & blood dragon, scrolls or cube world. Would I be looking forward to, or even play wildstar?

    The gaming industry has exploded with brilliant games, and I'm glad that I have time to experience so many.
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  18. Paran
    Thank you. Just wanna said the same but i didnt found the right words xD

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